Curse

LouAl · May 03, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Here is something that I have been trying out in HM. I have always liked Shield of Regen, but it costs so much energy that it is tough to justify in most situations. Also, it can be stripped and then you are kinda screwed, so I never really used it other than messing around.

Recently, I decided to try a build around it because the HM monsters hit so hard, especially against squishies, and the +40 armor ought to help quite a bit. Here is what I came up with.

Attributes: Variable. Generally Prot is maxed, Divine as high as possible, and any other attributes as necessary. Often I go with 16 prot and 13 divine

Gear: I usually use Kekphets Refuge, but anything with +20% enchant will work fine

Core Skills:
[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Optional Skills:
[skill]Shielding Hands[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Inspired Hex[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill]

The optional skills depend on the area, but I generally find myself using Mend Condition (for the gauranteed heal when a condtition is removed), holy veil, and shielding hands (or smite hex if I am in a really hexy area). Really what ever you think makes the most sense here. You probably won't be casting whatever it is very often unless one of the optional skills is shielding hands and then you might cast it almost every 15 seconds.

The use of the build is mainly to use RoF as the main heal/damge mitigation. Since HM monsters hit hard, it generally gives a good health boost. Whenever you can (as in every 5 seconds if possible) activate Signet of Devotion so that you are actively keeping health high without wasting energy, BUT don't be afraid to cancel this and cast something else if the poop starts hitting the fan. If you have Shileding Hands, fire it off whenever someone is about to take moderate damage. If you have Mend Condition, use it whenever someone is down about 100 health and has a condition. You can't spend too much time worrying about hexes because it will burn through your energy pretty fast.

The real trick, and IMO strong point, of the build is to use SoR when someone is about to take big damage followed by Shield of Absoption if their health really starts dropping (always follow it with SoA if you are in a shattery/rendy area so taht your expensive enchant doesn't get ripped off). Generally SoR is enough, but if someone's health gets to 25% or so, you can put SoA on them and it will quickly refill. You can't use this too often, obviously, because at 20 energy a pop, it will wear you out fast, but it is a life saver when needed. Another nice thing is that once you put SoR on someone, you can usually forget about them for 12 seconds or so while you Sig of Devo others and wait for energy regen.

I have tried it with Divine Spirit and it works well to cut down on energy costs every minute, but it does take a bit more management and I often for get to use Divine Spirit when it is ready. Also, there is usually some downtime after you cast SoR on someone, so some of the Divine Spirit can be wasted.

The build wors well as a single monk on a 4-6 person team, and alongside a healer/protter in an 8 person team. It also works well on an 8 person team with an SoJ smitter with Reversal of Damage and some healing (I didn't think of using the SoJ smiter but had one on a team and the synergy was exceptional).

Some things I have noticed: You can't spam or you will be out of energy and then SoR is worthless.
Shielding hands and SoA go a long way toward stabilizing and reducing the damage your team takes.
In a shatter/rend heavy environment, spend as much time as you can on Sig of Devo and always cover SoR with something.

Anyway, it takes some getting used to but works well against HM monsters. Feel free to give criticism, constructive or not (preferrably if you have tried it, but also if you have not).

btw credit goes to me, but I don't really care...

moko · May 03, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

shield of regen builds have been around shortly after the latest buff to it.

i decided to use shield of regen as last elite for my heroes, because they can just use a few (sod, sor, rc, divert), and in some areas, you just don't really need either, so your left with one free, which is usually sod and it does a superb job i have to say.

my usual hero bar looks like;

[skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill]
[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]
[skill]Shielding Hands[/skill]
[skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill]
[skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill]
[skill]Holy Veil[/skill]
[skill]Aegis[/skill]
[skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill]

no energy probs either. :>

LouAl · May 03, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I put of that post and then read the 3 best elites thread. I had no idea that so many people liked it, haha. I guess I didn't realize that it was buffed recently.

I tried using a similar build with my heroes, but apparantly mine are stupider than your heroes. My heroes use SoR every 5 seconds and promptly run out of energy.

Also, I didn't include GoLE because when I need SoR, I usually need it right then. If I had to preface it with GoLE, people would get very close to dying/dead.

Nadia Roark · May 05, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I get into this argument with people too often for my own good, but SoD is grossly superior to SoR in nine out of ten cases, IMO. It's cheaper, only lasts a little shorter (not much of a factor with +20% enchant) and at 14 prot gives you only 11 AL less than SoR does.

Whether or not your target takes lethal damage is likely not going to be affected by a difference of 11 in your Armor Class. HP regeneration is also usually a non-factor, since damage can still come in fast enough to kill you even with the AL boost. SoR is probably better pre prot, but doesn't really last long enough (IMO) to justify 15 energy for a preprot. For preprotting, Prot Spirit generally has a superior effect for a cheaper non-elite anyway.

As a reaction to damage, SoD is far superior. If a target gets spiked and is very close to death, SoD will save your targets life more often than SoR will, from my experience.

Also, looking over the initial bar that got posted: Friends don't let friends play prot monk without Protective Spirit. I'd probably drop Sig Devo for it, and under "optional skills" you list Shielding Hands, which under most circumstances is redundant if you're already packing SoA. I'd bring SoA or Shielding Hands and Prot Spirit instead.

-Byron- · May 05, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Assuming you are running aegis I would suggest taking blessed aura along with me, but even moreso if you are running Gylph of Lesser Energy.

moko · May 05, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Also, looking over the initial bar that got posted: Friends don't let friends play prot monk without Protective Spirit. I'd probably drop Sig Devo for it, and under "optional skills" you list Shielding Hands, which under most circumstances is redundant if you're already packing SoA. I'd bring SoA or Shielding Hands and Prot Spirit instead.

it's mainly for PvE, i wouldn't EVER take SoR into high end PvP when there is SoD as option. :P and about Shielding, Soa, i usually run BOTH ps AND sb on my human monk, because the heroes just fail at using it, and nothing goes wrong with them spamming Shielding and Soa, and if they have to monk an area alone, damage is too low to use ps or sb.

but yeah, for PvE the tiny difference does matter quite a bit, and i usually run aegis chains anyways, making sod rather useless.

Nadia Roark · May 05, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

I've found that hero monks can do OK with Spirit Bond, but they definately fail with Prot Spirit. They seem to be better at reacting to damage than predicting it.

LouAl · May 06, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

I thought about using SoD, but what it came down to is that SoD's duration is really only slightly more than half of SoR (at 16 it is exactly half, but at 14 it is more than half). SoD comes out to 8.4 seconds and SoR is 14.4 seconds with a +20% mod. So, my thought was that extra 6 seconds and 11 armor (in my case SoR is actually 16.8 seconds and SoD is only 8.4 at 16 prot) would be worth the extra 5 energy.

For clarification, the original build doesn't work well as pre-prot because you are wasting a TON of energy on giving +10 regen for nothing. It works much better to use SoR when someone is starting to get beat on by 4+ melee monsters and their health starts dropping fast. It essentially slows the bleeding enough that you generally don't have to worry about them anymore (if there is too much damage still you slap on SoA or SH to let the regen fill tehm back up). Admittedly it is a lot of energy to use to stop someone from getting hurt (15-20e) but then you don't have to worry about that person at all for 17 seconds.

I thought about PS but decided against it as the build already has a lot of energy useage. I thought PS might break the balance (especially if used in the place of Sig of Devo). Also, the majority of damage in PvE is done with a bunch of smaller hits rather than spikes.

I'll give SoD a try, and see if it does work better (maybe with different support skills) and I'll put what I think a little later. Thanks for the input

Glass Of Water · May 06, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Let us all remember that with SoD, the 75% chance to "block" attacks ONLY applies to melee attacks. Spells and spell damage have NO chance to be blocked at all, they're totally unaffected. I'd rather have the extra armor, plus the regen to make up for the lost 75%.

PS - Can someone please clarify this for me. Shield of Absorption only applies to melee "hits"...right?

Div · May 06, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I always had this suspicion that one you slap on a good prot on your target, hard mode monsters turn and start beating on another one. I think it's true to some extent, which is why I usually go with straight heals with all-purpose prots rather than specific pre-prots. For SoR to be effective, it'd have to be pretty close a preprot, since otherwise it acts just like a heal breeze.

Samurai-JM · May 06, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I always had this suspicion that one you slap on a good prot on your target, hard mode monsters turn and start beating on another one. I think it's true to some extent, which is why I usually go with straight heals with all-purpose prots rather than specific pre-prots. For SoR to be effective, it'd have to be pretty close a preprot, since otherwise it acts just like a heal breeze.

I've noticed that too. If your getting piled by monsters and you cast 1 or 2 prots on yourself they will usually change targets. I guess that was part of the AI increase. I also use a similar build on my hero monks, and on myself in RA:

14 Prot, 11 Divine, 9 Healing, i think.
[skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill][skill]Gift of Health[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Reverse Hex[/skill][skill]Blessed Aura[/skill]

With blessed aura and a staff of enchanting, SoR lasts over 20 seconds. The +10 regen and half damage from that, combined with heal spikes of about 120 from Gift of Health, condition and hex removal, it is formidable. Even after the nerf to GoLE this build works. Sig of Devotion and RoF are pretty much optional, but they fit in nicely

Nadia Roark · May 06, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

For clarification, the original build doesn't work well as pre-prot because you are wasting a TON of energy on giving +10 regen for nothing. It works much better to use SoR when someone is starting to get beat on by 4+ melee monsters and their health starts dropping fast.

SoD is (once again) far superior in this case. 40 AL and regen is not as effective versus melee as blocking almost every attack and having an extra 29 AL. It all goes back to the basic reasons for SoD superiority: it's a better spell to cast as a reaction to damage than SoR is, because it stops more damage (most of the time) and makes spot heals more effective in the meantime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass of Water

Let us all remember that with SoD, the 75% chance to "block" attacks ONLY applies to melee attacks.

Uh... and bow/spear attacks. Almost every mob in the game will have something that SoD works well against.

Quote:

Spells and spell damage have NO chance to be blocked at all, they're totally unaffected.

Thats why you Prot Spirit/SoA/Shielding your target if you can. No one skill is meant to totally ensure your target's survival.

Quote:

I'd rather have the extra armor, plus the regen to make up for the lost 75%.

HP regen is the most useless and ineffective way to improve an ally's odds to survive almost any type of damage. Blocking attacks will usually be a lot more useful to your target than regen ever will, and like I said before 11 extra AL won't make an earth-shattering amount of difference either.

Blocking almost all attacks + 29 AL > 40 AL and regen. The only advantage SoR has is its duration.

Oh, and SoA stops all damage not just melee damage. If you cast it on someone who's standing in a sandstorm, they'll stop taking damage usually within a few seconds.

...oh, and Samurai: if you're looking for good ways to stick healing on a prot bar, Dismiss, RoF and Gift will be enough. There's no real reason to put 11 in Divine Favor for a 2 second cast that heals for a lot less than Gift will at the same levels. On most prot bars, Sig Devo is kinda "meh" in my opinion.

Effigy · May 07, 2007, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Devo Sig may be unwieldy, but it was the very tasty benefit of being free to cast. It also doesn't count as a Spell, which is nice in the event that you're Shamed or whatnot. Gift is certainly more powerful, but that power comes at the cost of energy as well as attribute investment. Both are good in their way.

EDIT: I also overlooked the obvious advantage that Devo is self-targettable.